Focus on Procurement interview – Barbara Allen of Te Herenga Waka Victoria University

Barbara Allen, Deputy Head of School and Associate Professor in Public Management and Policy at the School of Government at Te Herenga Waka Victoria University of Wellington. Photo supplied.

What do you do for a job?

I'm Deputy Head of School and Associate Professor in Public Management and Policy at the School of Government at Te Herenga Waka Victoria University of Wellington.

Where are you from?

I was born and grew up in a small town called Deep River, in the Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada. It was a very special place and provided every opportunity a young enthusiastic person could wish for.

What did you train in and where did you study?

I joined the Canadian Armed Forces at 18 and was accepted into the prestigious Royal Military College of Canada where I obtained an Honours Bachelor of Arts in Politics and History. I was training throughout the 4 years to be a Logistics Officer in the Air Force. Upon graduation I went on to a full-time post initially as an Air Force Lieutenant. I later took a Masters in Business Administration at the University of Ottawa, and did a PhD in Public Policy at Carleton University.

What attracted you to a role in procurement? And what keeps you here?

Training in logistics was really my first exposure to procurement. I loved the intensity of military logistics and the interconnectedness of supply and transport operations. I was always fascinated by the buying side – for example how military aircraft were bought and the complexity behind that. My passion for public procurement has never waned because it is such a varied field. As a public policy and public management academic, I unpack the ‘why’ of procurement decision-making – endlessly fascinating!

What advice would you give anyone considering a career in procurement?

There are more opportunities than ever in procurement, both on the education side and on the career side. There are undergraduate degrees in procurement and supply chain, and an increasing number of programmes at all levels including micro-credentials and courses that now properly teach about the context and implementation of public procurement.

If one is coming to it later in life – eg after years in other areas, there are many transferable skills procurement careers need such as expertise in finance or law, policy, marketing, private sector buying or logistics, advanced administration, coding, and so many more. Procurement people are generally passionate about what they do, and we are all keen to help those just starting to understand the education and employment opportunities out there. There’s never a bad time to become a procurement professional, and there’s a route for everyone.

What are 3 things the public do not know about the role of procurement in their lives?

3 things!? Only 3?

1. Everyone interacts with something obtained through public procurement in their daily lives – from water pipes to community services, from buses to medications. This makes ‘how the government buys’ or public procurement an absolutely critical part of all our lives.
2. Everyone pays for things bought through the government – ever been on the Interislander ferry and been stuck in the Strait?
3. I bet nearly everyone knows someone, or has known someone who is a buyer either in the public sector, private sector or voluntary and community sector. Without procurement, the wheels come off (both literally and figuratively) a huge amount of service delivery, such as commissioned mental health services; not to mention the vast array of goods and infrastructure that are bought by the public sector.

Can you detail your top 3 achievements from your time in procurement?

This is a hard question because I don’t think of my life in this way.

My achievements are part of the wider achievement across the world, amongst me and many colleagues, to raise the profile of public procurement and its importance in public policy and public management.

Second, I would say, designing and launching a Masters in Public Services Commissioning at the University of Birmingham in the UK. This was a time of significant interest in contracting for, and designing better public services. It was an exciting and enriching period.

Third, becoming a logistics officer in the Canadian military. It launched me on a journey of learning, and I’m still on that journey. 

You were a Captain in Air Logistics in the Canadian Armed Forces for 10 years. How did you get involved in that and how has it shaped your career and view on procurement?

Who I am and the type of leader I am stems from that very first decision to apply to the Royal Military College system in Canada. We had to study for a series of exams as young officers (outside of our degrees) and I had to study the procurement of the CF-18 fighter aircraft which I found fascinating – where politics meets procurement. We underwent extensive leadership training, both academically but more importantly, practically. I saw how good logistics leaders were the engine room of any organisation.

You’ve spoken to the OECD on electronic procurement. What areas did you cover and what do you think the future holds for electronic procurement?

That was a long time ago when e-procurement was all hype and real services online were just in their early stages. Many governments are still struggling to get their procurement e-enabled, but it is still seen as a way to begin to counter corruption and provide more transparency about what and how the government is buying and spending. Colleagues in Albania and Ukraine, for example are doing amazing things with new platforms and e-enabled buying.

You’ve presented a paper on artificial intelligence. Can you cover some of those ideas now and can you detail, if possible, what sort of tool AI could be for procurement particularly in the public service.

AI is the latest wave of interest regarding procurement and the integration of technology. It holds plenty of opportunity for assisting with some procurement and supply chain functions. There are already many AI tools that can support market intelligence as well as contracting. In the supply chain, AI is proving useful in many ways – tracking products and supporting information gathering at borders. I have a colleague in a Utah city who took it upon herself to start using AI – specifically Chat GPT to extensively support her contracting work. But each city, region, country and industry will have different tolerance for this. AI governance and assurance frameworks in New Zealand are being built to ensure we know what data is where, who is allowed to use it, and in what way. AI will never negate the need for actual humans to have a critical eye and deep understanding of how any strategy or function works.

What is the most exciting thing happening in procurement right now?

The international networks being built in both practical and academic circles. People are passionate about procurement and everyone is keen to make it better – to influence governments to learn the lessons of the past and move forward, and to support and train the next generation of procurement and supply people.

In an ideal world where you were not confined by a budget, what would you introduce to procurement that could help the industry function and develop?

Data analysts, lots of them, and the will to do the analysis that needs to be done.

In your opinion what is New Zealand’s greatest contribution to the procurement community here or overseas?

New Zealand is contributing through its incredible procurement people – from those involved in the procurement aspects of trade negotiations, to those collaborating with industry to move the dial on how partnerships are undertaken, to emergency procurement approaches and crisis management. Some of us travel far and wide waving the New Zealand flag, but just as important are those slogging out the contracts, managing the contracts, finding new ways to engage with our communities. The people are everything.